089 Chad McLean: Founder and CEO of Mental Joe Apparel

Chad McLean is the Founder and CEO of Mental Joe Apparel. Mental Joe aims to start conversations and provide funds and resources to those who suffer from mental health issues and those who support them.

In this conversation, Cam and Chad discuss their experiences with taking a social media hiatus, the importance of finding balance in life, and the role of plant medicine in healing relationships. They also touch on the challenges of being an entrepreneur and the need for self-care. The conversation highlights the power of tools like meditation and breathwork in finding inner peace and clarity. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, open communication, and taking the time to prioritize mental health.

Chad discusses his personal experiences with psychedelics and how they have helped him address underlying problems and improve his relationships. He emphasizes the importance of preparation and the need to make lifestyle changes in order to fully benefit from the healing potential of these substances. Chad also shares his perspective on setting intentions and the role of ketamine as a gateway to other plant medicines. He highlights the importance of being present, enjoying the journey, and constantly striving to be a better person, partner, and parent.

Chad's Info
Website: https://mentaljoe.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mentaljoeapparel/

This Episode is Sponsored by Elevate. Led by Jonathan Schecter, a seasoned specialist (and two-time podcast guest) in breathwork and integrative practices, Elevate is an 8-session program designed for those committed to personal growth and consciousness expansion through breathwork and coaching. Participants will gain a deep understanding of how to align breathwork with their goals, use breathwork to support their psychedelic and plant medicine work, enter psychedelic states with just breathing, and acquire a comprehensive toolkit for integration and meditation.

Go to http://bluemagicelevate.com/elevate and mention TRIPSITTING during your call with Jonathan or at checkout to receive $100 off the current price of $997.

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Transcript

What is up everybody? Welcome to the TripSitting Podcast. This episode is sponsored by Elevate. Elevate is led by Jonathan Schecter, who is a friend of mine and a two -time former podcast guest. And he's a seasoned specialist in breathwork and integrative practices. Elevate is an eight -session program designed for those committed to personal growth and consciousness expansion through breathwork and coaching.

Participants will gain a deep understanding of how to align breathwork with their goals. Use breathwork to support their psychedelic and plant medicine work, enter psychedelic states with just breathing, and acquire a comprehensive toolkit for integration and meditation. If you're interested, go to bluemagicelevate .com slash elevate. And if you schedule an intro call with Jonathan, mention Tripp sitting during the call to receive $100 off of the current price of 997.

Or if you feel ready to sign up, put in the code, trip sitting when you're checking out and you will receive that $100 discount.


Welcome back to the TripSitting podcast after you were episode 19 that originally aired back in February of 2023. I am super excited and humbled to have back Chad McLean, who is a husband, father, founder and CEO of Mental Joe Apparel and truly just a dear brother of mine.

Yeah, I appreciate you reaching out and getting back on and catching back up. And I'm looking forward to our next hour together, Yeah. So, you're coming off of a bit of a, let's call it social media hiatus. Yeah, I guess you could say that. Yeah. I just, it's one of those things like, you know, being an entrepreneur, wear so many different hats, you know, and

me being an older guy now, like I'm not as versed in the technology, you know, the algorithms and stuff. so, you know, Carrie and I have literally just been our heads down driving this bus of mental Joe as hard as we can for like the last two and a half years. and you know, just some burnout started happening and a lot of it was social media, you know, cause it's like, we just don't know what we don't know. And the algorithms I feel sometimes are holding us back, you know, cause we say certain things and we, you know,

We are supportive of other different ecosystems that might not be as prevalent online there. I'm not selling boobs and ass, so that doesn't go a long ways. But yeah, we had to pause. And I think that's one thing lot of entrepreneurs don't talk about is you're so focused on go, go, go, go that every once in a you gotta kind of pause and reassess things and try to plug gaps where you can and keep moving forward and kind of refresh, really.

Yeah, was there, is there any fear involved for you like in hitting that pause button on like, shit, like what if everyone forgets about us? I think that's always going to be in the back of your mind, right? You know, cause again, we're a mom and pop shop, you know, but to be candid, like we haven't lost any followers, you know, like, I mean, we, gained 10 followers. haven't lost anybody, you know, then.

We really haven't been posting much, you know, and people get it. Like people have reached out and said, hey, just checking in on you. And I tell them, hey, I'm good. We're just kind of reassessing and kind of pausing. And like today we're going to visit with a gal that does social media, you know, so hopefully she'll, she'll, you know, kind of help us out and ramp some things up and clean some processes up for us. But that's just it. It's just, it's that go, go, go, go, go. And it's built into our society too. You know, it's always like, you know, 110 or don't go at all. You know, and sometimes you,

You got to notch back that, that first year and really slow down and look at things from a wider perspective. feel like it's hard to do in this space sometimes, especially when we are, we're people that are preaching to people all of the time, the importance of like slowing down and, know, not moving at a hundred miles an hour. And yet here we are on the back ends, like burning the candle on both ends and, know, almost knowing that we're sort of contradicting ourselves. Like,

finding that balance is a fucking challenge, man. I certainly can't say that I've mastered it by any means. So how do you deal with the ebbs and flows of that? You know, same. I'm on a different headspace now. And I can look at it I can realize when I'm in a valley or I can realize when things aren't really moving forward and just stopping and assessing, right? And saying, OK, where are we missing the mark here? Or where can I focus other energy to move the needle that way?

before, know, old Chad, man, I would just put my head down just barreled through or I would have quit by now. The entrepreneurial road is scary. Like you're saying you're burning both ends at the candle, you know, and for me, it's a passion project now. You know, it's not sitting in an office from eight to five, you know, that's just grueling in front of a, you know, a laptop or computer. was, you know, I was in corporate.

real estate for almost 20 years of my American corporate America world life, I guess you would say. And it's real estate, it's real cutthroat, and it's go, go, go. And you don't close a deal unless you sign the paperwork or the contract. So you're moving at paces most people can't keep up with for 20 plus years. that just didn't feel right toward now. Like you said, we're both probably burning the candle at both ends.

It's for a purpose. It's for a passion. And, know, like I said earlier, lot of the stuff people don't see about mental Joe is the veterans or the first responders or the average Joe is that reach out to us saying, man, like I really need some mental health help here. And, you know, I've never heard of this psychedelic stuff or this ketamine stuff. Can you elaborate like, and Karen, I will pick up the phone or we'll set a zoom call or whatever that looks like, or we'll refer them to a retreat or we have a ketamine clinic here in Phoenix that we refer people to.

and she takes care of those folks and you know, nine times out of 10, right? Everybody comes out with a profound experience of holy shit. Like why haven't I known about this stuff sooner? You know, and so that's, think what keeps driving us to be mental Joe, right? Is we're this fun, goofy kind of apparel company, you know, but we're also resource and advocate driven and we still have a lot to figure out and resources and where we can guide people and stuff, you know, and we're trying to.

I don't want to say build those partnerships, but build those relationships where it's like, like if someone needs Ibogaine, who do we send them to? You know, what clinics are trusted out there? You you hear a lot of stuff in this ecosystem of clinics not holding the proper space and some, you know, being the gold standard, you know, and I don't know that, but you want to figure those out. So if people come to you, you at least have that relationship to send somebody. for me, that's where I get back on the saddle.

think and say, okay, we got to refigure this out because there's people that need us out here. Yeah. What have been some of the most exciting and let's call them like the peaks that you've experienced since we last talked? Yeah. wow, man. Same thing. I'm not very good at like pausing and giving myself the grace to experience the wins, right? I'm, know, go, go, go. What's the next? And I forget, but Scotty Hastings has become a friend.

He's an up and coming Nashville country singer and one of our, well, it's right here, right here. One of our hats says grateful on it. And that's, that's a Scotty Hastings hat. So like our hat was on the Grand Ole Opry for his debut during the Gary Sinise foundation and the 30th celebration of Forrest Gump, right? So kind of cool. Like I'm not there, but in spirit, you know, my hat is there on stage with this guy that's debuting for his very first time, you know.

You know, Marcus McGee, you know, so we have a buddy and we carry his collection on our website. So that's kind of cool, right? You know, we got the UFC fighter that, you know, we do apparel for him and, you know, his collections on our website. So, you know, little things like that, you know, like I've gotten to see Scotty, you know, kind of, you know, start making his way up the Nashville Country Singer ladder, if you will. And I got to, I'm seeing Marcus, you know, with his career.

going up the UFC ladder. Now he's fighting in the top 15 and you know, those are some of the stuff and know, Cody Crowley is a friend and he was going to fight for the welterweight boxing belt and he ended up having to get eye surgery. You know, so it's kind of cool. Like I can kind of see, you know, where some of these guys and gals are that we have connected through within the last two and a half years. And it's cool to see their stories grow and just again, same thing, just meeting people like you and

you like you said, was almost two years ago, we did our first podcast together. And so now, you know, two years here later, I've got different news, you've got different news and you know, we're still connected. We're connected via this little goofy ecosystem that we all know as plant medicine or psychedelics, right? So. It's true, man. Sometimes, sometimes the ecosystem feels a lot bigger than it actually is. And I find myself having to constantly remind myself,

how many people still do not know about this and how many people are still so, so new to this world. Whereas like for us, like our news feeds, our algorithms, they're constantly feeding us this shit. Like this is all we are consuming and seeing. And we don't realize that, wait a second, it's actually not the same for everybody else. And so many people are so green coming to it that we gotta like take a step back and.

It's been a good practice of patience for me. Yeah, 100%. I mean, like I same thing. You know, I mean, you know, we still hold that space and you know, I'm a little bit different than the purple hair and the nose ring and the Burning Man person, right? And you know, the fingernail painting, know, but with that, like, that's what I love about kind of the space that we're holding is we're bringing people into this ecosystem that have never ever like, you know, this is their stuff.

don't touch drugs, they're bad people, they're losers, they're yada yada yada and the list goes on, right? But that's The people that have taken a hundred tabs of LSD following the Grateful Dead around in the 80s and 90s didn't realize that there was a different part of this that they could access. Thank you, yes, exactly. And so I think that's where our culture is, right? We're so trained on what you just explained, the LSD, like let's jump on a bus and run all over the world. Hey, great, more power to you.

But for me, I wanna heal people, right? Like I really want people to know that there's another way to live life and you don't have to live it through a bottle or popping pills. so for me, it's really important to hold that delicate space of just still being that good old Montana kid, but loving everybody else for their different opinions or different thought patterns and being, okay, I'm good with that. I know there's a lot of people I've pissed off in this space because I talk like that.

Like I literally want to that space for that good old boy in Kansas, right? That doesn't know about this, but you know, he's got childhood traumas from his dad beating him or he's got his military traumas on top of all that. And it's like, no man, like this stuff can heal you and you just got to be open to it. So if I piss people off, like at a certain point, I don't care because I know who I'm trying to help in this, the big schema stuff, right? So.

Some might call that helping out the average Joe. should take that and run with it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of one of our taglines, Veterans versus responders and your average Joe's. the company named Mental Joe, you know? Yeah, man. Do you find yourself giving too much of yourself sometime where you're then not able to really hold that space? Because that's something that I struggle with and especially lately.

That's been something that, that I've been struggling is, is trying so hard to be of service and be the person that can hold that space and have that support me financially and spiritually and developmentally with everything I do. lately for me, like really within the last month or two, like I, I kind of realized that it had gotten to a point where like, I'm not filling my own cup. Like I'm not being there for cam.

And I'm not reaching out to people to then get that help and make sure that I have that support. And I'm trying so hard to be that for others. And basically I'm then not able to do either one. I then can't fully show up for others and I can't fully show up for myself in the process. And, and, know, I've, I've had to kind of slow down a little bit and really take that time and reassess like the fuck am I doing? Yeah. I think it's, it's funny. Like, again, we talked about a little earlier, but you know, same thing, Mel Joe is going through that. And I feel like.

There's a lot of people I've talked to probably in this last week and a half and a lot of them are going through the same stuff. Like people are really struggling, you know, whether it's, you know, what the hell's going on in our country politically or what is going on just in the world in general. Like if you just zoom out and just take feelings and labels off of certain things and you kind of start looking at things and you kind of scratch your head of like, okay, that's a little leery. Like, why are we doing this?

You know, I think a lot of people are really stressed out. Everyone's kind of waiting to take that big exhale, you know? So, you know, I think we're all in the same boat. I said, you know, you're feeling it, I'm feeling it. People are reaching out to us. You know, and the same thing, that's why I to take a pause from social media. And just in general, as we're just pushing so hard. And then, you know, before you know it, now you're dead scrolling for an hour reading articles or whatever. And you're just, you know, it all happens. We're human beings, but.

To recognize that and step away from it, think, is the important

Yeah, when I, like even when I'm doing the meditation, like before we start, I would say like, you know, if you get, if you get lost in the thoughts, you get lost in the feelings, lost in sensations. You can always come back to the breath. there's always the you that is still there. So like, I, I fucking do that. If I'm on Instagram for too long or Tik TOK or something, I'll realize, like, I'll literally realize that and be like, take a deep breath.

Now throw the phone across the room and walk away. Exactly. And again, that's for people of us that are a little bit more mindful than let's say others are, right? Like we have the ability to recognize that now, as opposed to probably our old selves where we would just sat there and themed and made stupid comments and it would have ruined our day and we'd be pissy. It's like, no, man, like we really gotta look at this stuff from a different lens.

having that ability to pause, like you said, get back to breath. I feel same thing sometimes, I'll be going behind the desk here and I just pause and I'm like, deep inhale, really big exhale and it's like, okay, body needed that. Like I'm recognizing now, to where before I would have been like, breath, what's this breath thing? Yeah, we all breathe, shut up, drive on, you know? Even with that too, like I'll even catch myself doing that and like I'll take a deep breath.

And I'll still notice though, like the feelings, like the shame and guilt cycle will just start up from there of like, well, you why did you spend all your time? Like, I'm not even on it anymore. And then I'm still thinking, well, why'd you just spend half an hour wasting your time on social media and doing these things that aren't actually making a difference. And like my body is still moving in a million miles an hour, even though like I'm trying my best. And it's like, like I have to just accept.

Accept my humanness like accept the faults. Yes, except like the things that I don't like about myself is like It's fine man. Like, you know, yeah, you're gonna fuck up Yeah, well, and if you pull the veil back, right and that's what I like about a lot of these, you know, calm celebrities Whatever he wants kind of like, know, like I'm a big Joe Rogan guy I listen to Rogan quite a bit and you know, I really like how he you know people are good snippets of him, you know, and they'll think that's who he is I've been listening to him for years and

It's cool just to have all the different people that he brings on. And what I like about that is you're hearing from other people their struggles and that, they're famous and they're millionaires or they're a scientist and they still do stupid shit and scroll on social media themselves. So it's like, you kind of got to give yourself leeway, because we all do it. But that's what I like about social media is we're seeing the human and other humans to allow us to probably give ourselves more grace.

I think we're at this pretty incredible time with social media in the fact that a lot more people are realizing and kind of understanding and figuring out how do we use this tool for good and how do we not let the tool consume us, which at its beginning and its infancy into now, that's all it was doing is it was consuming us. We were not consuming it. And it seems like there's a

There's certainly a shift happening again. I don't know if this is really just within our ecosystem because we tend to be a little bit more aware of these things, but I think it's happening externally too, people are noticing that, okay, this, this can be used for good. Again, I would have never met you if it weren't for social media and consuming things is not necessarily a bad thing.

But as long as you are consciously consuming it, like, as long as you know that, Hey, this is what I'm doing. I'm taking 30 minutes right now. And I want to, I want to be inspired. Like I'll, I'll go on Instagram and watch Tik TOKs and things like that. And I will get inspired by it. And then I'll put it down and like, I'll go make something because I'm like, that's, that's what it did to me. And so realizing that there's, there's the balance to be had balance has also been a really key word for me lately of like, what does that look like? How do I not let the pendulum.

keep swinging too far to either end and how do I kind let it dip within that middle area? Yeah, what would you say is helping you find that middle area? What are some of your mainstays that you know will kind of keep you in that middle area from not swinging so far?

Really making sure that I do the things that actually make me feel good. And like that's, sounds super simple, but like literally just making sure that, okay, I, I have, worked out today. Like have I moved my body? Have I meditated today? Have I journaled today? Like have I literally just like shut everything off and like go sit and stare outside for 10 minutes today? Like have I given myself.

the time to just truly exist. I'm, I'm, I'm realizing now that I am somebody who really does need to, to have alone time. Like my, my alone time is, is precious to me. and if I don't give myself alone time, like truly just for me, like I will, I will be off. I will be running on fumes. I'll be like way more agitated when people ask things for me that like to no fault of them, because they're asking for just very normal things.

you know, especially trying to figure that out within a relationship, you know, I've, I've, I have a partner, but fuck, I don't have kids. don't have a wife. don't live with her. Like, I'm like, like Ernie thinking like, damn, when, my life turns into that, what the hell is this going to look like? It's wild, dude. It's, it's a completely different trip. That is for sure. you know, and I am so thankful for Carrie, you know, in so many, so many ways. and it's, it's crazy how, I mean,

we're both very open about it. think you've seen it. Like we're very open that MDMA saved our marriage hands fucking down. Like, and I think that's why we're such proponents of this. And again, now that we can zoom out, like Carrie and I will have the conversations of it wasn't that we didn't love each other, right? It was just, we didn't know how to communicate and we had so much resentment or so much pain on either side that we didn't know how to express that without hurting each other. And it was hard to have that conversation.

That's where now like her and I like, like we put the boys to bed like last night we sat on the couch and we talked for like an hour about everything. You know, we're joking about shit, serious stuff, like whatever. Prior to that, her and I never did that. It was, I was in front of the TV cause I was pissed off at her for some reason or whatever. Right? But I can, know, relationships it's, it's kind of sad cause we were talking about it last night of how many friends that we know that are going through the divorces or they're cheating on their wife or their husband or.

There's some other, like literally I have eight close friends that I know that are going through divorces right now. And I'm like, we're both looking at each other, like kind of wondering like, hey, if these people are open to these plant medicines, MDMA, this thought process, would they have gone to the point of cheating? Would they have gone to the point of saying to hell with my relationship that I had for 20 years?

You know, and that's, again, that's what keeps driving us to bring this more to the surface so people understand this stuff. Because I do, I think if you can use this stuff in the right context, like you can really clean up a lot of cobwebs to move forward with your relationship in a better manner. Yeah, one of the keys to that though is like wanting to put in the work to do that. Like these things are not like MDMA.

didn't fix your marriage. MDNA was a tool that you used, but you guys then had to put in the work to continue that open line of communication. Like, you I can get all these great insights. Like I just sat with Ayahuasca about four weeks ago and I got some great insights from it. But like Ayahuasca didn't fix anything. It just showed me like, yo, here are your blind spots.

Now, you do with this information, whatever the fuck you want. Exactly. you go. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that point up because that's so important. I think a lot of people forget that, right? Again, in this ecosystem, there's people that go sit with Ayahuasca every six weeks, right? And for me, like just being that guy on the outside, I'm kind of like, that like, did you not fix it? Did you not get the message? Did you not put in the work?

Why are we going back? Like for me, I want to use this stuff less, right? And use it as a check -in for once or twice a year, you know, on a macro scale, you know? But it's like, I'm with you. I'm so glad you said that because it's just that. It's a tool. But it does show you kind of a path or some limits that you might have on yourself and some shadow work, as they might call it as well, right? Like, if you don't put in that work to address that shit, that shit's still going to be there. So.

Super happy you brought that up. Yeah, it can give, it can give clarity to like what a next potential step could be in reverting the situation, but like that's it. can, it can allow me to think of things from just the purest space, like from the heart space. I know that this is how I am thinking of solving this issue that's there, but like there's always multiple solutions to any problem. And you know, I'm

probably gonna pick one and it's not gonna work and then, okay, cool, can I figure it out? Can I keep doing and keep trying and not let that consume me to the point where I'm just like, to hell with it. Like, yeah, I'm just not gonna try anymore. Yeah, and I think that's it. I think that's where it opens your brain, right, to look at things from a different angle or a different lens even to say, okay, you know, like I always make the analogy of, you know, being a guy that was, you know,

I don't want to say I was ever an addict, I overabuse this stuff for sure. From the pain pills, from SSRIs to alcohol. I had a very narrow way of thinking at things. I express it as a frontage road. A lot of people are on a frontage road and they're just driving. All they know is what's on that frontage road. Then I feel again, you add a tool in like MDMA or ketamine or some plant medicine.

and you really put in the work, like before you know it, like you can see an off ramp. And now you take this off ramp and you see this off ramp has got thousands and thousands of lanes of different ways to approach things in life. Tour before it was like, walk up to a brick wall and I'm like, eh, I'm done, I'm out, nothing I can do here. But now it's like, no, I can go over it, I can go under it, I can go around it. can take a detour. And so I think that's what's so powerful about these things.

Yeah. Something to you that just kind of came up for you when you were talking about that is like, you know, when we think of ADHD, I think still as a, as a society, we're still thinking of ADHD, depression, anxiety, PTSD, whatever it is. We're thinking of that as the problem. then we're looking at, okay, what is the solution to the problem? Like, how do we get that to go away? Whereas that's, I like, this is again, might just be a personal opinion, but

Like I don't think any of those things are the problem. Those things are all symptoms of the problem. So if we're trying to solve and trying to help people get rid of the symptoms, we're not ever actually addressing the problem itself. And so like, that's where I see these substances being able to help us address the underlying problem that actually exists. But so many people still think that those issues are the problem. And so if they can't see, you know, even see that,

there's no way that we're going to be able to do anything to actually help them. It's always just going to keep on masking the symptom and the problem is just going to either stay the same or most likely keep getting worse. Yeah. I I am that guy, right? I was the guy that masked everything through alcohol and pain pills and just kept running down that highway of destroying relationships and jobs and everything else. So I mean,

Yeah, we've got to slow down. is, like you said, I think a lot of society is starting to kind of wake up to some of this stuff and they're kind of like looking over the fences and a really interesting thing. I had a couple reach out to me, never done any kind of drugs. They don't even drink, uber religious. Like two weeks ago, they both sat for their very first ketamine session. And I think they're about on the third and fourth and they're like, holy crap.

we cannot believe like the power of this stuff and how it's made us grow closer as a couple. And these are people, I said, they're never done a drug in their life, not even drink. And they're just super religious, but they, again, trusted my knuckleheadness of what they've seen on Instagram and what we're trying to do with Mental Joe and, you know, obviously believed in us enough to say, okay, like we're willing to try this stuff and step outside of our box. so again, that's kind of the big purpose behind Mental Joe, right, is to...

to hold that ground to help those folks that are leaning one way or the other. Hey, what is this guy doing over here? And how does he talk about these things? And how have they helped him and his relationships? And just relationships in whole across my lifetime, just all the people I've met at MAPS for crying out loud. all those people I talk to now, same thing. I never would have met any of those folks it was for social media or trying psychedelics out.

this would be such a weird thing for me to see from an outsider's perspective. Yeah. So what is your personal relationship look like lately as far as actually using psychedelics and empty engines and ketamine and all of that? Yeah. So I always use ketamine as kind of like my way to reset myself. For me, it's because I'm a dad, right? And I don't have a lot of time.

it's legal and it's right here and the Gallup holds that space for me. I Uber trust like a sister and so I can kind of go in and get my reset. I probably say I do a ketamine reset now probably every six months to where prior to that I was doing, when I first started ketamine, I was doing ketamine every two weeks. So I went from doing it every two weeks to almost every two months to now it's every six to seven, eight months. Depending upon the stress level,

I kind of know if I'm starting to be a little bit shorter and I'm a little bit more agitated, I kind of review what's going on and okay, maybe it's time for that ketamine, control or delete, essentially. I'm a big cannabis user. I'll even, for cannabis, twice a week I give myself. I go to the gym, I get a little obliterated in the truck, and I go in and I go work out.

I know for folks that might hear this that are on the outside and be like, well, thought weed makes you lazy. Yeah, it can. But I like to use it to go into the gym and just to work out. I can feel every striation when I'm doing it. I have my phone open on a notebook and the ideas just flow. so then I just, that's like my meditation. Most people when they think meditation, they think you're in a corner and.

You're sitting quiet and you're doing all that. But I think meditation looks different for every individual and mine is putting on the headphones, going in, doing that, shutting things down and just focusing on the gym and whatever flows through the mind. And I put it on a notebook. I've actually stopped even putting like headphones in when I go to the gym now. I'm just raw dogging it when I'm in there. cause I found that I was focusing on like

the music and like figuring out the playlist and like all that. And I was, you know, I'd be, I'd go through a whole workout and I'd be like, I don't fucking, I don't remember a single thing I just did right now. Like I have no idea if I just worked out. so like me making myself have to be super present to that and like trying to go slower with some of my reps, you know, it's still obviously changing sometimes, you know, better workouts than, than others. But, know, things like, like that. I.

I noticed in doing that, how often if I would go for a walk, I'd always put my headphones in. Like, so like I was always trying to still distract myself from what it is that I was doing every time that I was doing it, even when I'm working and certain music that I would put on, like, okay, I'm not actually doing anything right now. I'm just listening to music and I'm using that as an excuse where it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's an opportunity to figure out like, where are you truly being present in your life? Yeah.

And back to the kind of medicine stuff you're talking about, I probably, I to say it maybe three or four months ago now, I went to a MDMA and psilocybin retreat. And that was beautiful. I mean, same thing ran through that. Like the MDMA portion of that was, it was all love for Carrie. It was all love for Carrie. And I had my notebook and I would just sit in a corner and I would just write thoughts and about the boys and about her. It was it.

I mean, for that entire time, was literally it was funny because other guys would walk up, hey man, you want to talk? I'm like, no, bro. is my time. need to sit and do my thing, you know? And then the next night we did psilocybin. And that was beautiful, too. It took a while for me to get that kicked in. But hop a, I can't do hop a, man. I'm out. I'm not interested in it. Go away. No, thank you.

Forget it, man. Did you ever smoke cigarettes or did you ever use tobacco at any point? And see, that's what I've heard. I've never done the nicotine thing. I was in the military and I would carry extra rolls of Copenhagen in my rucksack to sell to the guys and I'd get IOUs back at the barracks, right? I didn't smoke, I didn't do anything about hoppy, it kicked my ass, man. I was nauseous as hell, I threw up. I'm like, forget it, I'm out. I did it once, I don't do it, no, no thank you, I'm not interested in it.

grandfather tobacco, especially in, in, that sense, if you've ever had Hoppe or, a Paco is also like a really, really powerful, way. I, I love it. I, I did, I, I've, really, I, I never smoked cigarettes or anything. I used to vape for, for a really long time. So like, I've, I've always loved nicotine for sure, but something about those two things, like really.

get me so present and help me feel like so grounded and so good. But I could see why it doesn't do that for some people. But like, I think that's just a spirit that like, I connect with very, very well. Like that's for me. Just like my grounding spirit and that always will be, but I can only, know, I'm not doing it, you know, all day or anything. I'm just constantly smoking my Pacha or like do a lapay. But it is something that at least in my tool belt,

Like it works and it's helpful. It helps me meditate. It helps me be there. But like, yeah, that shit can kick your ass. Dude. Yeah. I was not a fan. So yeah. So threw up and threw up several different times. And so everyone else is kind of dropped her dropped into their psilocybin stuff. And I'm upstairs like, do I really want to do this? Like, I feel like ass. But yeah. So did the psilocybin and same thing. Like it was, it was really weird, you know, during that experience. It was like, I was looking at a big movie screen.

and like words like anger would pop up and they'd be like really puffy like like bubble -licious, know, and it's like this anger and I was like, what the hell? then like literally like minority report with Tom Cruise, it was like this huge thing. was like all these times that I was angry in my life and I could view all that kind of stuff, you know, and it's to set with that and then like to set with the feeling of it and you know, a lot of stuff, like I'm not big on

I'd say huge retreats. know, like I really like the space kind of to myself selfishly because I really want to own it. If that makes sense. Like when I speak anger and empathy, like I really wanted to set with those feelings to really feel those. Cause to me it was like an interpretation of that cause or that anger that I put on somebody else. Like I really felt that, you know, I was like, fuck, I caused that much pain to somebody. So when I go through these experiences, I really try to set.

individually if I can because I want to dig deep. Yeah, I mean, but also to you, it's like when you're causing that much pain to somebody, you're causing that much amount of pain to yourself at the same time. exactly. And so to feel that, right? So that's, so yeah, I mean, I would probably say every six months I'm doing some kind of a reset, whether it's a little retreat down in Mexico or, you know, it's, you know, some of that hold space, you know, I always try to do that every, you know.

Twice yourself and get realigned. Yeah. Something that I realized too is just so important in this work is we talk a lot about integration and it's, and it's always like integration integration, but I think what's actually missed a lot is preparation. think preparation can make just.

truly just as big of a difference in your experience and what you're able to then take away from it. Then if you just focus all your time on, on, on integration, like it could be so powerful, the things that come up and that you make space to receive during that preparation time. Then when you go into the journey, like you're locked in, you're dialed in and then it helps with the integration afterwards. So think that, I think there needs to be a little bit more focus on.

on that preparation period to really be getting yourself because then, I mean, kind of the way you think of it is, you know, let's say you're on a cadence of every six months. Well, that means you're always either preparing or you're integrating. And it's just the constant cycle that you're going back and being in those two states. helps you stay very present to be able to like be able to weather the peaks and the valleys. Yeah, I feel I'm always kind of fresh.

If that makes sense, can kind of always pause. Even like I said, this last little stuff I was kind of in, I was able to really kind of pause and reflect and say, all right, man, like, think about this from a different angle. what's all, same thing, right? What's all going on in life? Have I been eating, right? Have I gone to the gym? You know, yada, yada, yada, go down the list of what is the new foundation now, you know? But yeah, it's so funny.

you talk preparation and stuff and every time I'll go set for something people, what's your intention? And I don't ever, ever set an intention. And I guess I have a different outlook on it. Cause my whole thing is if you set an intention, right? That's what you're going into said journey to go find, right? Cause that's your intention for this. But I feel when you're in it, right? Like there's going to be so many things that you miss.

Because you're looking for that one intention that you're setting, if that makes sense, right? I think it's counterintuitive sometimes. People probably argue me that you've got to set an intention. I'm like, but you guys also say that medicine is going to show you what you need to see. So if I set an intention, all right. So I struggle with that. So that's why I ever really set an intention or really prepare. I just kind of say, all right, man, you're going to show me what you're going to show me. Let's go. Whatever I'm ready for. Let's have it.

Yeah. See a lot of the time I set my intention as just show me what you need to show me. like I'm going in with that as the intention of like, show me the blind spots. Like I, you know, I don't want to go, but yeah, that was, that was kind of my intention for when I sat with Ayahuasca about a month ago. was like the first night I sat, it was show me what you need to show me. And, you know, it showed me my blind spots or showed me where I wasn't loving myself. It showed me where I still had a lot of self doubt and all of that.

And a lot of what it showed me is that I was still holding on to so much and that, you know, I wasn't letting that go. so for, for the second night, then I just made the intention, just help me let go. That's it. And so, but like, I'm not trying to let go of this or let go of that or do this. like, show me what I need to let go of. Like that's it. But like, I needed to have that first night of like, yo, what the fuck? Just show me.

Do we do your thing, homie? Yeah. I think that's, think, honestly think that's a better way to approach this stuff. And again, I get it when people, I'll set your intention, but I'm like, hey man, medicine's going to show me what you're going to. Prep is so much more than just setting a tension. Prep is like, bro, like making sure you're eating clean, not putting shit inside of your body. Like making sure that you are.

doing the things that we should always be doing. But you know, they're going to, yeah, let's hold it. Let's hold it in for this period before we go do medicine. Right? Yeah, exactly. Like let's, let's really, let's, let's make some sort of sacrifice and like more so than even showing up, know, having eaten really well and journaled every day and do that. I it's to me, it's, it's more about like the energetics of having to do some work, having to sacrifice some part of your life and change part of your routine.

in order to be able to receive the insights from the medicine. I agree. No, I'm with you on that tenfold templates. It's one of the things that kind of talk about why I'm such a big ketamine advocate. Right. Yeah. Because again, me, when I was on one hundred and fifty milligrams of effects or there's there's no retreat that would have taken me because I needed to be off that stuff. And so same thing. I understand being clean and going in and doing that. Right. But like for a lot of veterans and first responders, you know, there are

on, you know, said medication, right? Like they can't come off that stuff cold turkey. So for me, that's why I'm such a huge proponent of ketamine. Cause I think ketamine is a nice little gateway essentially to kind of get people to come off medication, but then to open up their consciousness to other different things that are out there, you know? Yeah. Do you see ketamine as a long -term solution for people or do you more see it as like that more short -term to be able to then...

to the other things. I think it could be both to be honest with you because I still get quite a bit of benefits out of ketamine when I do go set with those. know, again, Sandy at Enlighten Wellness that holds a space for me in Scottsdale, like she has different playlists for me all the time, you know, and she knows, like she dials it in like, okay, we're going to be dark for your first go around. Like I want you to go through some shit, you know, and then like the second go around might be a little bit more lighthearted. So

We adjust that, right? We adjust the therapy to get where we need to go. So I think ketamine can definitely be used as a long -term solution. But also, like you just mentioned, I think it's a good thing to broaden the consciousness to realize that there is another way out there. So I mean, right? Because that's where I started, was ketamine. And after ketamine, I started looking at other different plant medicines and MDMA. And then what I did there, I...

I started doing all the research behind him and trying to understand the history of it and why are they, you know, why are they schedule ones? Why aren't they off there? And then you start learning the history and you're like, all right, fuckers, you've been lying to me for too long here. Like enough's enough, you know? So yeah, it's, I think you can, think ketamine can be used in the short and in

Do you have any desire to sit with Ayahuasca? Has that crossed your periphery yet? You know what's funny? It really hasn't. I think you probably know Shannon down at Spirit Farm in Florida. she's on our website as a resource for people that are interested. And her and I have talked. And same thing, I haven't felt called to go do it. I'm sure there'll be a time and a day. And maybe there'll be a point in my time where, guess what?

I just go do it for the experience to say, okay, like this is what it of is like. You know, I've done Bufo, you know, and that was, I know a lot of people are scared of that medicine because it could be a mother. But my, my journey with that was really, really clean. Super, super clean. Probably some of the cleanest journeys I've gone through as far as if I compare ketamine and psilocybin and everything else, like the Bufo was one of my cleanest, easiest.

journeys that I've gone on. So same thing, right? Each medicine is going to affect somebody completely different. And like you said, the preparation that I knew for the Bufa, I was eating really clean. was journeying a little bit more. I was putting a little bit more work upfront. Because candidly, I was scared to death of it. The horror stories I heard of Bufa, was like, fuck me. I don't know if I want to do this. But jump down that gauntlet, and I'm happy I did. It was a really cool experience.

And that's still one of the medicines that I have not sat with. Okay. So, it's kind of, kind of the same thing. Like I, I feel at some point I will be called to it, but right now in my journey, it just doesn't, it doesn't feel like that's what I need at the moment. Like there, there are other things that I need to focus on. And so like, you know, not trying to just shove every single medicine down my throat and just, you know, in, in general, for anybody that's thinking about this, you know,

A question I get a lot is what medicine should I do? And that's such a hard question to get because I have no fucking clue what medicine is right for you. you know, there are, there's information about there and like, know, some of the things about this medicine are just the way that we've been conditioned is that, you know, we're, taught to think that, okay, I have this problem. What can you give me to fix this problem? And people.

are coming to psychedelics that way too, to no fault of their own, but there needs to be a little bit more research done upfront for somebody to be able to make their own informed decision. And the truth is that there's no wrong answer. Like all of these medicines, like as I mentioned, like they're tools, they're all tools to help you get to the exact same place. And can you see me? I just see a little thing that says,

connected though, now I see again. Man, we're having all kinds of issues today. Shit. That's a new one actually. That one's never happened while I've been recording before. Well then good, you solve that and we cut that part out. That's all good. Go ahead, go ahead. Now I was gonna say, they're all tools to help us get to the exact same place. But do you wanna take...

the Honda to get from point A to point B. Do you want to take the Toyota? You want to take the Ford? You want to take the Ferrari? Like, what do you want to take to get there? But you're getting from here to the same place in a slightly different way. Do you want to take the highway? You want to take the back roads? Like, you know, it's, it's, it's tough. And so you kind of need to know like what feels right for you at this moment. And that's the right answer. Yeah. And I think if you do your research and again, this is, and I don't want to ever be called a source of truth or anything like that. Right. But you know, the, the folks that

I have talked with and the people that we have on our website as far as resources. Like those are all people that I have broke bread with. I have talked with them. Like I've understood their processes and because of how we visited and I realized, okay, these people are gonna hold really good space. Like I'll put them on our website. It's just like a shout out to be like, hey, if you're looking for X retreats, here you go. Here's these folks right here. But like the ketamine I feel,

It's such again, it's such an easy way to kind of walk through that door, especially if you're on a lot of gear, you know, and that I do agree with for sure if anybody is on things and because for all the other ones like you you should be off of those things and they're like, I don't know if I can get off ketamine is but that one I have no problem recommending to people if they're in that situation, correct every time and it's I think you're getting more people to and more retreats and and what not they're being smarter about the medicine

Like they're not, you know, your first night and it's the first time we've ever tried this. They're not saying here, here's, here's 10 grams of mushrooms. Good luck to you. You know, they're, they're, they're letting you dab your toes in the water a little bit. It was kind of the, Bufo retreat I went on, you know, they gave me just a little bit of taste that first round and say, Hey, this is kind of what the experience is going to be, you know, as opposed to, Hey,

lock and load, we're swinging for the fences right away. Strap in motherfuckers. Exactly. I think people are getting smarter about this as there's more research behind it, as they're realizing people are coming to this ecosystem that really don't understand this or they've never done drugs. And so instead of setting up for failure and saying, hey, here's your eight grams, know, good luck, know, hey, here's two, you know, or here's, you know, let's get the toes in the water. Yeah.

And it seems like, so like within our ecosystem, seems pretty well understood. And something that we're talking about is like the medicine path is not just you take medicine and go about your life. It's changing your whole way of being and existing. Whereas what makes it so hard is that every mainstream article that I see does not paint that picture whatsoever. And so we're meeting people that have this expectation of what this is and then having to be like,

yo, I'm really sorry, but it is not that. And if you go into it with those expectations, like it is not safe for you to do this at this moment. There are steps that need to be done. You need to be ready to change other things about yourself. Like this is a step in the process. Exactly. mean, you look at pictures who I was four years ago, dude, I was, know, 200 and what, think 70 pounds or something like that. Right now I'm floating between, you know, 210, 220, depending upon diet and stuff. But I mean, I'm

I'm almost down 50, 60 pounds and I don't drink anymore. This November I've been off of any kind of pharmaceutical, whether it's an SSR or a pain pill or what have you. And so to those changes, just like you said, you've got to make drastic changes if you want this shit to be a long stay for you. You've got to make life decisions. And prior to that, I didn't realize I would ever get on the other side of the light. I'll be fat and I'll be an alcoholic.

I'll pop pain pills and that's my destiny, it's who I am. But now I can look at it from a different lens and like, no, there are ways to go about this. And a lot of it is just, it's on ourselves, right? All comes back to us, like we have to put the reps in, you have to put the work in. If you can't expect a six pack and eat Doritos all day and not do anything and be like, well, I don't have a six pack, well, you gotta go put in the reps. Big insight, none of these are new, but the...

The way they clicked for me is just, I'm trying to get attached to the process rather than getting attached to the outcome. Correct. Yeah. And so just realizing what is the process? Like what are the consistent daily habits and things that I can do to get me wherever the fuck, like it's, great to have a goal in mind. And I do have goals. have dreams. have desires, but I can't focus just on those. have to focus on, okay, what am I doing today?

to get me there and then realize as I start doing that and doing the process and going towards it, those are going to change and that's okay. Those are, those are allowed to change, but doing the process day in, day out, it's going to get me to a better place, probably better than I even dreamed of, but like, you know, being able to take it back to that and fuck me and just live in the present. Well, it's, like you said, it's the journey, but it's having the discipline and a little in some, you know, and having faith of realizing the same thing. Like I've seen.

I guess you'd say the vision where mental Joe's gonna go and how big we're gonna get. But at the point right now, like I I wanna quit three weeks ago. Like was tired, man. I'm in debt, like we're helping so many people, you know? But it's like, golly, man. But then you have, like you said, you gotta pause, you gotta zoom out and go, this is part of the process. This is part of the character building. This is part of growing a business. Like there's gonna be these ebbs and flows. There's gonna be the, let's pause and reassess and look at this from a different.

you a different angle, you know? So yeah, it's enjoying the process, the journey and having those disciplines to put in the work that needs to be done to get the set goal. Yeah. Well, as we're wrapping up here, my final question for you, Chad, is what are you most looking forward to at this stage in your journey? Yeah, I think for us, I mean, just everything. For me, it's always wanting to be a better husband and be a better dad.

Again, people that have followed us, I love both my parents, but they did the best they could with the tools they had. But at the same time, now I play catch with my oldest boy before he gets on the bus, after he gets home from school. And so I can reflect and realize that I didn't have that as a kid. So being present in those moments to recognize those things that, hey, I am being this extra dad that these boys need because I am present, I am here.

For me, it's continually breaking the glass ceilings of how do I be a better dad? How do I be a better husband? And then how do I be a better Chad, but also give myself the grace enough to know that my past is my past. And yeah, I have fucked up plenty of times, and I can't correct those, but I can only correct what is in front of me now. So just being better constantly, just striving again, that silly saying of 1 % a day. say, hey, if I can get a half percent,

percent better, that's even, that's alright, I'll take that half a percent. you know, and growing mental Joe, you know, we've got some cool things coming up and that's kind of why we've paused from social media stuff to really kind of focus on the foundation and how we set some things up there and where do we pivot to grow to a larger audience. lots of different things I have lined up goal -wise, but.

Well, thank you so much for sharing this space with me today, brother. It's been a pleasure. got a lot of love for you and I really appreciate you. Likewise, man. And while you reach back out, we'll have to do this more often instead of every two years or so. Yeah, exactly. We'll get it going. But cheers, my friend.

Thank you everybody for joining me and thank you to Chad for coming on the podcast. I hope everybody enjoyed listening. If you have any interest in reaching out to me, shoot me an email at tripsittingblog at gmail .com or shoot me a DM on social media at underscore tripsitting underscore. It's where you could find us on Instagram and TikTok. That's all I got for you. Hope you all have a.

beautiful rest of your days and we'll see you next episode.